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原标题:专访|导演乔·德特杜巴:《巨齿鲨》和《大白鲨》没有可比性
看完《侏罗纪世界2》后,想必不少观众会遗憾那头在海里神出鬼没的沧龙明明最让人胆战心惊,可是戏份却少得不够看。别着急,不用苦等到《侏罗纪世界3》上映,这个周五上映的《巨齿鲨》(The Meg)就将再度在银幕上还原史前海底大型生物的威慑力。
《巨齿鲨》海报由乔·德特杜巴(Jon Turteltaub)执导、杰森·斯坦森(Jason Statham)、李冰冰、雷恩·威尔斯(Rainn Wilson)、鲁比·罗丝(Ruby Rose)、赵文瑄等出演的《巨齿鲨》讲述一项由中国主导的国际科研项目,正在马里亚纳海沟深处进行时,遭遇未知生物攻击,科研人员被困海底。前美国海军陆战队深海潜水专家乔纳斯·泰勒(杰森·斯坦森饰)受命前往营救,再度遭遇数年前曾经在深海给自己留下终身难以磨灭记忆的史前生物巨齿鲨。乔纳斯联手科研项目中的中国女科学家张苏茵(李冰冰饰)成功营救了被困人员,但营救行动却意外造成了巨齿鲨逃离深海。当史前巨兽重返浅海,人类将为自己对大自然的贪婪付出惨重的代价……影片改编自美国科幻作家斯蒂夫·奥顿(Steve Alten)撰写的同名小说(又译为《深海侏罗纪》)。书中描绘的巨齿鲨“身长70英尺,重达60,000磅,一张血盆大口内密布着几百颗锯齿状的巨型尖牙,每一颗都足有7英寸长。即使猎物远在几英里之外,它们也可捕捉到猎物的气息,识别出猎物心脏的跳动”。虽然《巨齿鲨》仅仅是奥顿的处女作,但由于剧情引人入胜,文字描述极具画面感,还佐以写实的科普知识,小说一经付梓就拿下法兰克福图书博览会的最佳图书,1997年7月正式发行后旋即登上《纽约时报》畅销书榜,并行销超过20个国家。作者奥顿也乘胜追击,将乔纳森·泰勒与巨齿鲨的故事扩展成系列小说,之后又出版了五部,最新的一部是今年出版的《巨齿鲨:代际》(Meg: Generations)。
导演乔·德特杜巴与演员杰森·斯坦森、蔡书雅、李冰冰、鲁比·罗丝、赵文瑄亮相《巨齿鲨》中国首映礼就在小说出版后不久,迪士尼就买下了它的影视改编版权。然而,它的银幕之路却是充满崎岖。迪士尼购得版权后,并没有付诸任何实际的拍摄计划,一搁十年。2007年,新线影业重新从原作者奥顿手中买下版权,并计划拍摄完成后于2008年上映。随后,先后传出曾执导《生死时速》的荷兰导演扬·德邦特(Jan de Bont)和对怪兽片很有心得的墨西哥导演吉尔莫·德尔·托罗有望挑大梁。可惜,很快新线就宣布拍摄计划取消,大感失望的奥顿收回版权。《巨齿鲨》从此成了好莱坞有名的“烫手山芋”。到了2015年,奥顿又率先公布《巨齿鲨》的拍摄计划将重启。很快,导演花落擅长恐怖片的艾利·罗斯(Eli Roth)的消息也不胫而走。但之后又爆出,由于创作分歧,罗斯出局。到了2016年3月,乔·德特杜巴正式接下导演一职。没过多久,杰森·斯坦森等一众演员确认就位。终于,在小说出版二十年后,在包括华纳兄弟和引力传媒等中美两国的影视公司牵头下,《巨齿鲨》的拍摄得以顺利展开。《巨齿鲨》的两位主演杰森·斯坦森和李冰冰都是中国观众非常熟悉的演员。至于在影片银幕化的曲折道路中最后一脚定乾坤的导演乔·德特杜巴,名字听上去有点陌生,但一旦说起他的作品,各种类型片的爱好者必知晓其一:如果你喜欢动作冒险片,那一定知道尼古拉斯·凯奇主演的《国家宝藏》系列;如果你喜欢浪漫喜剧,或许看过桑德拉·布洛克主演的《二见钟情》;如果你喜欢悬疑惊悚片,可能深思过安东尼·霍普金斯主演的《本能反应》的主题;如果你喜欢异想天开的题材,约翰·屈伏塔主演的《不一样的本能》和布鲁斯·威利斯主演的《扭转乾坤》堪称天马行空。总而言之,德特杜巴是一位擅长各种类型、极少失手的导演。
独自玩耍的小女孩发现海中异常日前,借着乔·德特杜巴来到上海参与《巨齿鲨》宣传活动的机会,澎湃新闻对其进行了专访。这位现年55岁、从上世纪90年代起就已活跃在好莱坞的导演,不论是外形还是言谈举止,都比实际年龄显得年轻得多。几乎回答每一个问题,比如为什么接下片约、跟好莱坞的幕后大腕合作有什么心得,他都在道出自己观点的同时,不忘开几句玩笑。不过,在问及这次参与中美合拍片的拍摄,对于双方有何建议时,德特杜巴在认真思考后,给出了严肃而恳切的回答。【对话】澎湃新闻:在你接手前,《巨齿鲨》这个项目已经几经转手。我想,好莱坞导演应该都知道这个项目不容易,那么又是什么吸引了你迎难而上?德特杜巴:有三个原因让我愿意接下这个片约:第一点是它的制片团队中有洛伦佐·迪·博纳文图拉(编注:Lorenzo di Bonaventura,好莱坞著名制片人,曾经为《变形金刚》系列四部电影及《特种部队》系列两部电影担任制片人,还曾成功为华纳兄弟拿下《哈利·波特》系列的电影版权)。我认识他已经有好多年了,之前却没机会和他一起工作。在我眼里,洛伦佐是一个了不起的制片人,我一直都很尊重他。作为一名导演,我需要制片人能保证拍摄项目的安全性,我知道跟洛伦佐合作不会错。第二点,我很期待这次跟中国团队的合作,我想要去了解中国观众,想看看跟中国的制片人一起工作怎么样,也很想到中国来旅行(笑)。第三点就是我对这个题材很感兴趣,我过去就研究过鲨鱼和史前生物,但我也清楚相比已知的领域,在这方面我们不知道的东西更多,而电影可以弥补未知的拼图。澎湃新闻:原著小说当初一鸣惊人。跟小说相比,电影的改动大吗?德特杜巴:哈哈,改动还是不小,如果你是小说的死忠粉的话,很可能会想骂我。但如果你喜欢的是小说的构思的话,那你一定会喜欢这部电影。小说里的很多具体情节做了改动,甚至巨鲨的视觉效果也不一样,应该说整个故事都变了。但你要知道,我们改编的是一部关于巨鲨的小说,又不是《圣经》对吧。而且显而易见,文字是死的,电影是活的,好的小说并不一定能变成好的电影,因为小说更多是关于人的所思所想,电影是关于人的所见所行,两者的差别还是很大的。
庞大的巨齿鲨从科研人员面前游过澎湃新闻:这次有很多拍摄都是在水中进行的。我之前看到有新闻说鲁比·罗丝甚至差点遇到生命危险,能透露一下当时的具体情形吗?德特杜巴:哈哈哈,这个故事有两种讲法。一种是耸人听闻的讲法,一种是有点无聊的讲法。前一种讲法就是我差点杀了鲁比·罗丝,后一种讲法就是罗丝想淹死也难:当时她穿着靴子在水里跌倒了,觉得自己一时好像站不起来了,但是当时她站的那部分水深仅有一米,只是她不知道而已;另一件她不知道的事是,她身后还有两位救援潜水员。没错,也许她当时已经很累了,也许我让她呆在水里的时间的确点长,但她绝对没有任何危险。我爱鲁比,怎么会让她淹死呢?!澎湃新闻:虽然你之前执导过不少科幻和冒险题材的影片,但《巨齿鲨》似乎是你的导演生涯里场景最宏大的一部。能谈谈拍摄中遇到的最大挑战是什么吗?德特杜巴:嗯……每次拍电影都会遇到一些相似的挑战,比如该如何跟演员相处。《巨齿鲨》特别的地方在于巨鲨是影片的主角之一,因此视效就很重要。如何才能逼真地呈现一艘小船在茫茫大海中的画面?首先你当然要找条船,找片大海,然后开拍!当然我们要考虑大海的脾气、天气的好坏等等因素,反正拍摄跟海水有关的剧情,就意味着花钱花时间。但是,当你完成拍摄的时候,其实一切才刚刚开始。我们可没有一头打算把我们当午餐的巨鲨呀,你要把它加进去才行,还要把画面上拍到的那些山移走,以及诸如此类的许多视效的工作要完成。这是没办法的,我想如果斯皮尔伯格现在来拍《大白鲨》,那他一定也不会只用机械鲨鱼了,肯定会加入大量的视效,那就是一部完全不同的电影了。当然,我知道正是因为鲨鱼在《大白鲨》里没有真正露面,所以感觉才那么恐怖,但我也能打包票,不论用什么方式去呈现鲨鱼,斯皮尔伯格都能拍出一部杰作来。
乔纳斯与张苏茵准备与巨齿鲨一决生死澎湃新闻:说到视效,《巨齿鲨》有什么特别的地方?德特杜巴:这是我拍过的电影里面最讲究画面呈现的尺寸比例的一部。巨齿鲨是一种体型异常庞大的物种。我意识到能体现它的“大”的办法,就是把它跟其他东西放在同一个画面里对比。就是说,如果在我们的意识里那些看上去很大的东西,出现在它身边显得很小,那我们对巨齿鲨的“大”就有概念了。所以在视觉呈现上,我们遵循的就是同时拍摄很大的东西和很小的东西。然后,我们发现这有时也不管用,因为在大海的深处其实很黑暗,根本体现不出东西的大小。如果你有一条三十米长的巨鲨,怎样才能知道它有三十米长,如果你把一个人放在它边上,它肯定会马上就把那个人吃掉。所以我们在影片的视觉呈现上一次次斗争,最终决定让焦点回归到人身上,还是要让演员成为整部电影最关键的元素。澎湃新闻:这次担任主演的杰森·斯坦森和李冰冰,你都是第一次合作。能谈谈对他们两位的印象吗?德特杜巴:的确,在此之前,他们两位我都不认识。我知道他们拍过哪些电影,但作品并不能告诉你,演员究竟是什么样的人,而且一般你只会在他们演过的电影里选个三部来看,不可能一下子看个20部。所以,还是要靠实际的碰面和交谈,才能了解他是谁。先说杰森,他是一个非常喜欢耍宝的人。我觉得他留给一般人的印象可能有点可怕,因为他通常在电影里都是扮演硬汉。他也确实是“男人中的男人”,而不是属于女人的男人。身为男人,你会想跟他一起出去晃悠,跟他一起打发时间。但他不是一个只存在于电影里的假英雄。我们通常只知道他是一个动作英雄,但他其实无所不能。所以,我的工作就是挖掘他在其他方面的潜力,比如激发他的幽默感,表现他谦逊中带着狂妄的性格以及腼腆的一面。至于冰冰,我是通过一次次的聊天了解她,每次我们两个都笑作一团。她给人的第一印象是:哇!好有女王范!可是相处之后你会发现,原来根本不是那么回事,她很有亲和力,很爱开玩笑,总是那么开朗。但是在拍片的时候,她的精神会非常集中,竭尽全力不出错,当你需要她做什么的时候,她往往已经准备妥当。所以作为导演,我想激发出她风趣的一面,让大家看到她小女孩的一面。
深海潜水专家乔纳斯表情震惊澎湃新闻:这次《巨齿鲨》的幕后团队阵容相当强大。摄影指导汤姆·斯特恩(Tom Stern)是克林特·伊斯特伍德的老搭档、艺术指导格兰特·梅杰(Grant Major)一手打造了《指环王》系列、原声配乐哈利·葛瑞森-威廉斯(Harry Gregson-Williams)曾为《怪物史莱克》系列、《纳尼亚传奇》系列等操刀。跟这三位合作感觉如何?德特杜巴:我想每一个导演都应该知道,之所以能取得一点成绩,是因为他们获得了站在巨人肩膀上的特权。当人们跟我说:“你的这部电影画面很不错啊”,我嘴上说:“谢谢”,但心里清楚这是因为我有一位出色的摄影师;人们跟我说:“你的这部电影里的音乐真动人”,我知道那是因为我有一位优秀的配乐家。只有跟比你更有天赋的人搭档,尤其是跟比你更伟大的导演合作过的人一起工作,你才有机会知道他们从那些导演那里学到什么,继而看到他们将毕生所学运用到你的电影里会擦出什么火花。这些人往往有自己的需求和傲气,我所要做的就是让他们觉得受到尊重。他们不是为你工作的奴隶,而是真正的艺术家。我的目标就是让他们发挥最大的作用。这样,我才能拍出一部好电影,然后外界的人就会觉得我真厉害(笑)。
泰勒和张苏茵神色凝重澎湃新闻:《巨齿鲨》的原著小说目前总共有六本,在你看来,它有没有潜力被开发成系列电影?德特杜巴:现在电影产业的游戏规则就是,如果这部《巨齿鲨》没能成功,就别想有机会拍第二部。如果这部电影能成功,那就会没完没了地拍下去,直到观众彻底厌倦。但是,老实说,我不觉得人们会想看一部关于巨鲨的续集电影,如果他们期待续集,那也是因为里面的那些人物。如果鲨鱼的桥段拍得好看——我们也的确做到了,那么这部电影就能获得成功;只有角色塑造得有魅力,这部电影才能继续拍下去。澎湃新闻:相信一定会有观众拿《巨齿鲨》和斯皮尔伯格的《大白鲨》作比较,这会让你觉得有压力吗?德特杜巴:我觉得为这点烦心有些蠢。如果你拍的是一部恐龙电影,那肯定会被拿来和《侏罗纪公园》作比较。当然有人看了《巨齿鲨》会提到《大白鲨》,而且我肯定他们百分百会说“还是《大白鲨》更好”。毕竟《大白鲨》可是在影史上留名的经典啊。而这两部电影能比较的点,仅仅是因为它们都有鲨鱼,它们根本就不是相同类型的电影。换个角度来说,如果影史上有很多关于鲨鱼的电影,那么没人会拿《巨齿鲨》跟《大白鲨》来对比。
在巨齿鲨面前,人类显得非常渺小澎湃新闻:这次的演职员团队中有不少中方的工作人员,对于中国的电影公司来说,这样与好莱坞的深入合作,目前还在起步阶段,但相信未来会成为常态。以你这次亲身参与的经历来看,能分别给双方一些建议吗?德特杜巴:这是一个很好的问题。我想中国人应该先充分了解我们做电影的方式。在我看来,也许对文化的理解,要比对电影本身更重要。美国电影始终处在变化中,根本就没有什么固定模式,你们也要学会及时做出调整,迅速应对变化。中国人做事好像有许多条条框框和约定俗成,一旦有什么变化,都必须先去问这个人,再去问那个人,一层层问上去,这样几个礼拜就过去了。但实际上,我们只有六分钟做出决定,他们人在那头,一大堆工作人员等在这头,而我又需要在这里拍,但我其实没法拍,因为我需要这里是一堆烂泥,可这里偏偏种着许多美丽的花朵,于是有人告诉我“你不能在这里拍”。碰到这种情况,随机应变的能力就很重要。而美国人必须了解的是准备工作和各种细节处理的重要性。你不能只是在现场逛一圈,然后就开始说你需要怎么怎么样。事实上,细致的工作对于一部电影有益无害。我看过的那些最好的中国电影往往都在细节上不同凡响,画面上的一切都各就其位。而很多美国电影,我们都是大概意思到了就行了。这是中国电影值得我们学习的地方。